so harry reid's strategy might be the easiest one. just say, look, this is not part of the conversation. we're talking a about the wars, the pentagon, talking about taxes, let's stick to that. look, you want to raise taxes and lower defense spending, we'll do that. if not, then p we go off this supposed cliff and then democrats are negotiating from an even stronger hand. >> i want to bring in senator jeanne shaheen. i'm wondering what you think about what he had to say, raise taxes or lower spending or going off the fiscal cliff. where are you? and how do you feel about tinkering with medicare and medicaid? >> look, i think we've got to put aside all of the sacred cows and really got to be willing, as dick durbin said, sit down and negotiate and come up with a plan, a long-term plan that's balanced, that looks at the domestic side of the budget, the defense side, the mandatory programs, and the revenue side. and if we're willing to do that, then i think we can get an agreement. but i think to go to the tax issue that you were talking